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« on: October 16, 2005, 10:16:40 am » |
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For those of you who follow American politics (as in North and South America, not just US) what do you think of Hugo Chavez? He gets some horrible press, but I actually think he's great and his speeches are a riot.
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mutex
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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2005, 10:41:48 am » |
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I'd like to see him and Pat Robertson in a boxing ring
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« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2005, 10:58:32 am » |
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Are Hugo Chavez speaches available on line? My news is filtered through the economist magazine, which reports on him oftem enough but the economist seems to wish the oild price would go down so his economics would catch up with him. I would like to think enableing the masses through basic education and medical care would be an economic as well as a social benefit. There are a few cooperatives but they do not seem wildly successful without ongoing state/oil support (again the economist talking). The question that arises is basic education useful or is education elitist in that it is really for benefit through the few PhD and lecturers. I have a vocational degree and Masters, but it seems only work can make you free, i.e. would I have been better working, as I apply only basic concepts and techniques. The argument is University was a good reward for study while at school, and learning new concepts there helps learning new concepts later, even though the University new concepts are not used. My fault is I want to draw a line and learn everything fully that has been alluded to up to now, and not move forward and deal with new information, and circumstance, based on incomplete older information. On to Hugo Chavez I am all for it as an experiment in what is possible, I will be joining a trade union next  . As an experiment quashed see Allende 1974 Chile. Just my 2 cent. Turloch |
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mutex
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« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2005, 11:02:21 am » |
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I'd like to listen to them too. I get to hear the more radical sound bites of his speeches, and even then they are probably out of context. He seems like a raving lunatic, ala Fidel Castro, but I've heard enough to the contrary that I should look more closely.
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jenn-x
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2005, 11:10:03 am » |
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The question that arises is basic education useful or is education elitist in that it is really for benefit through the few PhD and lecturers. I have a vocational degree and Masters, but it seems only work can make you free, i.e. would I have been better working, as I apply only basic concepts and techniques.
The argument is University was a good reward for study while at school, and learning new concepts there helps learning new concepts later, even though the University new concepts are not used.
Education shows committment to a cause, which employers like. Also, if everyone was educated with only the basics, we would have a large society of trash collectors and the like, and the country would be almost completely dependant on importing it's technology, biotech and other science industries. |
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2005, 01:16:41 pm » |
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The question that arises is basic education useful or is education elitist in that it is really for benefit through the few PhD and lecturers. I have a vocational degree and Masters, but it seems only work can make you free, i.e. would I have been better working, as I apply only basic concepts and techniques.
The argument is University was a good reward for study while at school, and learning new concepts there helps learning new concepts later, even though the University new concepts are not used.
Education shows committment to a cause, which employers like. Also, if everyone was educated with only the basics, we would have a large society of trash collectors and the like, and the country would be almost completely dependant on importing it's technology, biotech and other science industries. I suppose education shows delayed gratication, and buy in to the (a?) mainstream. Is this a bit off topic, Education and Economics fascinate me as a bystander. How U.S.A. manages to function as an Economic super power, astounds me. I have heard Cuba is pushing its health and biotech industries pretty strongly. I am not sure what industries outside oil that Venezuala is pushing, maybe it is the next call center, outsourcing location. Off topic, but shows some background in developing coutries with good education records: I am from Ireland which has had a sustained economic growth for the last ten years, and is pushing technology, biotech and other science industries, as it is being priced out of the call center and outsourcing business. Ireland is taking in a lot of people from the new EU countries, Poland being the biggest. There is a huge increase in house prices (15-20% per year for the last 5 years). |
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jenn-x
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2005, 05:54:56 pm » |
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I believe the reason that the US is an economic super power is that it is a capitalist society. For the most part, we don't try to go half way between capitalism and socialism. Business is allowed to succeed or fail. The US has very well refined markets.
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2005, 04:47:18 am » |
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U.S.A. seems to have thrived because it was a little bit better and winner takes all, all the money and all the best educated immigrants. Ireland seems to be doing the same, though the immigrants are initially doing low level jobs. 7.50 euro per hour is the minimum wage.
Maybe the immigrants children will really stoke the powerhouses engine. Mixed metaphors I know.
How can this apply to Hugo Chavez, he gets attention by being a little more socialist. It reminds me that political parties in a two party system, tend towards the middle of the voters. The analogy is two ice cream sellers on a sunny beach ending up in the middle rather than 1/4 and 3/4 in (the best distribution for the customers). I rant....
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mutex
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2005, 07:27:10 am » |
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The US makes it by size and having really dumb consumers who will spend until they live in cardboard boxes. We are in the middle of an upheaval, though, because a giant part of our economic system revolved around automobiles, and that market is going through a structural change with foreign competition and rising energy prices. 20 years ago, the US had about 500,000 people employed (at pretty high wages) directly by auto manufacturers, and probably about another 2,000,000 to 5,000,000 people employed in supporting businesses - steel, suppliers, contractors, dealers, etc. And, there were probably at least that many people on pensions.
Now, the steel companies are all gone, save two or three. Suppliers are dropping like flies - Delphi is the latest and largest. Retirees are seeing their pensions disappear as the companies that back them go bankrupt or negotiate sharp reductions.
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2005, 05:17:44 am » |
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The US makes it by size and having really dumb consumers who will spend until they live in cardboard boxes.
Nice quote, though it appears everybody is following the US. Manufacturing is down in Ireland and people are borrowing big time, though mostly to buy property. What is it that America does now? Services (not just flipping burgers) Hollywood and Silicon Valley(the bits that are not outsourced). >US makes it by size: Maybe India and China willl become (bigger) consumers and the world will become a more equal place. And pigs might fly. European Union is becoming pretty big, and more people is better economically (10 new countries in 2002, 2 more to follow and Turkey (a huge country) at some stage, EU will then boarder Iraq.) Applying this to Chavez, how does Venezuela fit in besides Oil. Money at low interest makes lots of things possible mostly property bubbles and inflation. Bury it [money,oil] back in the ground is the answer, or stop taking it out . Actually people are what really matters (see for reference U.S. and Ireland, and EUs growth/land grab), voting with their feet, does Venezuela have much immigration now it has so much oil money to spend, besides Cuban doctors? Does it have a higher birthrate? Will I look up the answers myself  [quick look on google yields http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ve/People I am surprised a public forum shows links as links in this age of spam, I am not affiliated to the site. ] |
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« Last Edit: October 20, 2005, 05:44:49 am by totierne »
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mutex
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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2005, 07:05:31 am » |
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The US is becoming much more service oriented. Financial services is very big, natural resources is big, defense is bif, agriculture isn't so big and of course we have a very big commercial/retail industry.
Venezuala is one of the countries that could do very well if their government started playing nicer with other countries. Certainly, the US isn't a stellar example of this, but somehow we manage to get by. Also, I think if Hugo got out of the way of his economy, it would likely take off on it's own. They are a very oil rich nation, but I believe a lot of that is nationalized. Oil could be the impetus that drives growth, but companies do not want to invest in a country where a government is likely to follow behind them and declare their investment a "public holding" now.
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« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2005, 12:41:39 pm » |
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I suppose I should eat a few economics blogs, it would be nice to have something current on Venezuela in English, though it is reported often enough in 'the Economist' magazine.
I want Chavez to be on to something sustainable beyond high oil revenues, but it is an experiment I am a bystander to so any loss or gain is academic to me.
The exchange rate history favours the Dollar strongly over the Bolivar so it seems I am going against the tide.
Money is not everything but no money is nothing.
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« Last Edit: October 20, 2005, 12:53:27 pm by totierne »
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mutex
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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2005, 05:15:35 pm » |
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I would say that the economic growth of Venezuala is a certainty. The uncertainty is what rate the growth is. A good way to play the growth in any country that is about to take off is to invest in the banking sector, then pull out and move into utilities as the growth progresses.
Money isn't everything, it's true. But, I've yet to find something it can't get...
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